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    ORG vs EM ???

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    Orak

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    ORG vs EM ???

    Post by Orak on Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:09 pm

    I don't know about you guys but i am always torn with the benefits of both.

    Like a Star @ heaven ORG armor and ORG weapons - If you want to power skill on medusas or nebula moles.. it's the best.

    Like a Star @ heaven ORG armor and EM weapons - Fighter's best setup for getting rich!!! Frost Crystals missions and Ice beast missions become walk in the park, and they pay good.

    Like a Star @ heaven EM armor and org Weapons - The utter EXPing formula (?)

    Like a Star @ heaven EM armor and EM weapons - massive skilling on e-bees and sparklers.. also a common war setup(?)


    But really.. in UNR nothing makes more sense than EM armor since there are E-bees and Sparklers all over the place at all times! Problem is, after ~60ish skills their benefits wear of rather fast.
    EM armor is also considerably more expensive than ORG armor.. on the other hand, leave out pardus armor, EM armor is the best all around armor... Bio weapons do only 100% to it, while C does 60% and EM does 50%.. It also is the least vurnerable armor to pardus weapons.
    Problem is, if you look at the NPCs, there are much more ORG oriented ones then there are EM.
    I think that the only high skill EM oriented NPCs are famous pirates and Solar Banshees.

    As for private PvP needs.. I don't think it meters because it all depends on your enemy's setup.. you can hit the jackpot with resilient armor halving and 100%+ damage dealing, or you may get stuck on the other side of that equation with any setup.
    In War it's best to have different pilots with both setups to make the enemy disoriented ans so that there will always be someone with an edge over an enemy pilot.

    Just posted it to raise the thought over it to whoever still didn't get there, and hear other ideas Smile
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    Marquis
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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by Marquis on Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:32 pm

    The eternal pain of ship designing... as frustrating as wep vs shield vs drive...

    Any thoughts on War setups.. I'm assuming the majority of Fed will use EM armor so that'll make org weps more effective... although the more experienced feds will know this...

    I was planning on Org/EM.. but at my current skilling and cash flow rate... I might have to dive into the chit quite late.... and I don't fancy a trip to fed space with no armor? to pick up the EM....
    Any thoughts?


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    jolers

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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by jolers on Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:44 pm

    maybe should have the pros give some nice war setups maybe for mercs or chitins or something... just post the fearsome ship calc designs so we have an idea
    of course ill be in my EP
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    Orak

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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by Orak on Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:19 pm

    I got the EM on my Chit and i don't see myself being able to replace it without replacing the ship Razz

    Many feds switched to ORG armor because of the massive amount of PASCs with BSAs... Their advantage is that they went through war and learned the lesson of equilibrium Razz

    I hoped for ORG weapons on the Chitin but i don't think i will be able to aford a real weapons change soon as well.

    One important thing for war.. When buying a ship for war pay close attention to it's repairs after death... it's missiles etc... rearming a Chitin is 100-150k.
    Don't expect not to die in war... some of us will even go for almost certain death o break through enemy lines.. so include after death repairs into your plans.
    In General it is unpredictable to what extend we can count on the AF to support fighters in the war because, and AFs to tend to run dry fast and easy in wars so i suggest every fighter who prepares a ship for war try to save close to a million of personal repair funds, and even more so if your ship has missiles.


    War Setups?
    First of all don't even bother with anything if you don't have all 3 primary fight skills over 40 or close to that.
    Second - Don't go out to war with anything weaker than a x4 Exotic armor.

    Low Rank/EXP:
    Merc:: 3 missiles means good firepower. ECCM+SECM depending on rank.
    Can put something like BSA, 20MW, Endoplasm + Ion drive and Q-Std. shield...
    Or more or less the same with 120MTs..
    In any case it's not a strong breakthrough fighter, but it is a very strong one.
    It's starting price with a x4EM armor and the first weapon setup is 4M.

    Marauder::
    For those who have some skills, but not the funds.
    Ok.. so get an Ion Drive, x4 armor and 3 20MWs ... you won't be the star of this war, but you will be able to ambush for ~16 rounds with relative safety and it's only ~3M cost with quite low repair costs.
    These ships are best to infiltrate enemy space for long periods, because they don't do much in ambushes.. unlike a Chitin or Merc they can be spared Razz.. and behind enemy lines they can cause REAL chaos, tarrgeting suppliers in babbels, making enemy fighters spend time brushing their own sectors... locking down buildings.. Even causing economical terror (which i personally dislike, it's below the belt hit)
    Just a warning, as almost everyone can get one of these, with insufficient skills you will be a punching bag, skills are the top factor here.

    High EXP:
    Hawk:: Best ambush breaker the Union has, not as good as fed/emp ones, but with a SECM can prove great vs ambushes.
    No missiles on it so it won't be much of a defender unless the pilot is really well skilled, but is a great dogfighter, and probably the cheapest upkeep during war.
    You can put anything on it:
    Slower drive and more big weapons - Killing hawk for higher skilled guys (all main skills at 60+)
    Or faster drive and smaller weapons - better for ambush breaking and survival overall.

    High Rank/EXP:
    Chitin or Gargy::
    These ships are mass damage dealers if in good shape, but are a handful on keeping them.
    Missiles... 5 for garg 4 for a chitin every battle.. Standard price is 32k per missile.. do your Math.. then count in repairs pale in Orion after in the second war after many lessons learned the missiles were sold during war at minimal (almost scrap prices) This may not be the case in our coming war because most folks still didn't have the lessons to learn from Sad
    These ships are definitlly no ambush breakers, flying with them through unscouted chokes is equal to Russian roullete.. but put couple of those with even fair skills and ECCMs and you got a pretty nasty amsbush.
    Laser weapons on them are less important and have massive amount of possible variations due to the good capacity, but the main emphasis of the Chitin and Gargy pilots should be missiles and the ability to have them.


    Benefits of Hawk / Merc / Gargy:
    They are neutral ships.. which means we have them, same as our foes have them.
    If you infiltrade enemy space for missions, or just for easy kills you will stand out much less.. only someone on the same tile as you can see you are an enemy.. someone seeing you pass nearby on their Nav screen won't be alerted.
    A Chitin or Marauder on the other hand is bound to attract un-welcomed attention.
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    Orak

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    FSC

    Post by Orak on Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:36 pm

    Marauder:
    FSCv4.0|example|35|8|8|8||||||||||||||||||||||9|6|3||1|1|1||||||1||||||||||||

    Merc:
    FSCv4.0|example|5|24|8|23||||5|5|5||||||||||||||||13|6|3||1|1|1||||||2|1|||||||||||
    FSCv4.0|example|5|27|27|27||||5|5|5||||||||||||||||13|7|3||1|1|1||||||2|1|||||||||||

    Hawk:
    FSCv4.0|example|8|27|27|27|27|27||||||||||||||||||||14|5|6||1|1|1||||||2||||||||||||
    FSCv4.0|example|8|27|27|27|28|28||||||||||||||||||||14|5|3||1|1|1||||||2||||||||||||
    FSCv4.0|example|8|24|24|24|24|24||||||||||||||||||||14|6|3||1|1|1||||||2||||||||||||

    Chitin:
    FSCv4.0|example|39|27|27|8|8|||5|5|5|5|||||||||||||||14|5|6||1|1|1||||||2|1|||||||||||
    FSCv4.0|example|39|27|27|28|28|||5|5|5|5|||||||||||||||14|7|3||1|1|1||||||2|1|||||||||||
    FSCv4.0|example|39|24|24|25|25|||5|5|5|5|||||||||||||||14|6|3||1|1|1||||||2|1|||||||||||
    FSCv4.0|example|39|24|24|8|8|||5|5|5|5|||||||||||||||14|6|4||1|1|1||||||2|1|||||||||||

    Garg:
    Same as the Chitin just with much more variations....
    FSCv4.0|example|9|25|25|24|24|||5|5|5|5|5||||||||||||||14|7|3||1|1|1||||||2|1|||||||||||
    That's the setup i'd go for if it would be affordable.. credits become the main roadblock here Sad

    Average refund of our hawks/trade ships of the advanced pilots in OPC 2-3 M... Which is not a lot Sad i always was a fan of getting expensive trade ships knowing i have 50% the cost of my next ship fro the refund.
    Saving the amounts needed for a warship takes effort.

    The Mercs/Marauder though are widely accessable.. most chances are we'll see quite some pilots without skills in them... may the Don have mercy on their souls Razz
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    Orak

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    SLiders!!!!

    Post by Orak on Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:46 pm

    Can't belive i left it out of all the ships Razz

    Sliders are not exactly fighters... they are not bad, but they REALLY lack the endurance required in a battle ship.
    However they can still be VERY effective as support ships with their 2 missiles and 3 guns...
    They can be great support ships or both ambush and offense OPs...

    Here's a maxed out slider... It can easily go with 10 round ambush and add a lot of damage to the pack:
    FSCv4.0|example|37|25|25|25||||5|5|||||||||||||||||14|7|3||1|1|1||||||2|1|||||||||||

    Here's a more realistic one, it's more risky but 8-9 ambush rounds with this are anything but neglectable in a stacked ambush Smile and you can notice it has plenty space for supplies or drive enhancements.
    FSCv4.0|example|37|24|24|24||||5|5|||||||||||||||||13|7|3||1|1|1||||||2|1|||||||||||

    Sliders are not pure fighters and they are better for folks who want to keep options open and save credits.
    Sliders are great for making credits when needed, and they have good combat abilities. So for someone who can't afford a Chitin/Garg, and doesn't like to be in a small ship with no other purpose than fighting, this can be a good fit to support war effort.

    Kaosrules

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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by Kaosrules on Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:23 am

    only a small amount of relevance to this topic, but probably a good idea. if people check their combat logs to work out whether the opponent has EM or ORG weapons/armor could we not build a ambush log that would enable the people who have outfitted their ships best to face those where they would do the most damage? so an all EM ambush list for people armed with EM armor and organic weapons, and a list of pilots with EM weapons but organic armour for those with exclusively EM weapons and armor?
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    superlars

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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by superlars on Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:40 am

    I dont think anyone has mentioned the union armor. Its conv, but its x6. its not that good vs. guns, but vs. missiles it give you some nice extra armorpoints. However, you need high rank for it, and Im not sure if anyone in OPC has it yet. If I could I would use that armor in a war (not good for skilling though). The price is nice too! Very Happy
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    Orak

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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by Orak on Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:06 am

    I think Keela does, i am not far from that rank (though not rally going up with it now)..
    I think that armor is only good when majority of the oponents can't pull over 25% hits against you.

    Assume you are in a Chitin - Large target, easy to hit.
    You got 420 armor.
    With a x5EM that means you have 4200 armor against EM , 3500 armor against conv. and 2100 armor against ORG
    With Ebidium you will have 2520 armor against Conv. and ORG and 2016 armor against EM.

    Now let's assume there are 5 NN550 missiles fired in a combat (max 20 round missiles)
    That's extra 1275 damage if all 5 hit (255 vs x5 armor or 212.5 against x6 armor).

    Pretty big difference.. grows to be even bigger with more armored ships.
    It all depends on how much you get hit by laser fire? I would suggest to wait with Ebidium until after you got AB and DC and all the other advanced skills that can rander laser fire completely neglectable.
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    Marquis
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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by Marquis on Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:00 am

    I checked PardusDv it says 2,291 with EM against ebid in a Chit.

    which is slightly higher than the 2100 from Org against EM
    and much higher than the 1680 from Pardus against EM... although dunno how many people will go for pardus weps for war?

    Considering that in a war your gonna be fighting against all kinds of weps, wouldn't Ebid be better cos you'll never have a really bad setup against you... that said if noone uses the Pardus weps then EM becomes much better...?


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    Orak

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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by Orak on Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:59 pm

    PArdus EQ is not so easy to use... Armor is half way possible because you can rely on robots, and leaches.. but for pardus weapons you'd have to rely on repair drones which is quite a lot harder, and you can't let your weapons drop below 95% without risking malfunctions.
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    bogram

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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by bogram on Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:16 pm

    i thought pardus equipment cannot be repaired by anything??
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    Orak

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    Re: ORG vs EM ???

    Post by Orak on Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:44 pm

    It can't be repaired by normal repair bays, special EQ does repair it.. which makes it very expensive and uncomfortable...

    Imagine you'd need robots for armor repairs and no other way to fix it?

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